Episode 13: Michael Loman - Bonus Interview
When I interviewed Michael, I chatted with him on the phone for an hour. He spent a lot of time reminiscing about his days in TV. I thought the really interesting and fun things he said were unrelated to the interview, so I wanted to share the rest of our conversation unfiltered on this last Monday of 2021! If you enjoy classic sitcoms as much as me, I think you'll enjoy reading this!
Darci: I'm curious what made you want to write for theater now after working in TV for so long?
Michael: Well, that's the exact reason. Because I've worked in TV for so long, that there isn't anything that I can think of that I haven't done in TV. I mean, I've worked for sitcoms, and I produced Sesame Street for 10 years. And I mean, and I've worked on pilots, and I've done everything. And of course, the classes that I taught at BU [Boston University] were about television script writing. So I think I've had my fill of television. I'd rather read a book at night, then watch television. So yeah, I've really had my fill of television. And theatre always intrigued me. And it's a wonderful area to work in. So it's different for me and challenging and exciting. So that's why. I'll watch television once in a while. I like - I'm very into politics. So I'll watch, you know, MSNBC or some channel like that, or CNN or whatever. But I, you know, I'm really not watching very many -- I'm not watching any sitcoms, basically, on television at this point. I've seen enough sitcoms. I’ve seen thousands of sitcoms, not only American, but British and Australian. And, you know, there's just so many that I've seen, so I even did, I had two fulbright's in London, and I taught, of course, television script writing. So I'm familiar with a lot of British sitcoms as well. So I think I've had enough of television.
Darci: Yeah, they don't make sitcoms today, like they used to I still really love the old multicam format. And that is just different today. So I don't think you're missing out on much by not watching the current sitcom.
Michael: Right? Well, I agree with you. There was something about the old. I mean, I worked with Norman Lear for many years on a number of his shows from starting with One Day at a Time and All in the Family. And they were different, the structure was different. They were, you know, there was something about them that was different. And today, there is certainly good shows on the air, but it's a different. I mean, everything is single camera. And it doesn't even look the same. There was an excitement about live television, the way Norman Lear did it with multi camera shows, and an audience right there that you don't see today. Very much. Except I think Big Bang Theory was one of the shows, that did still do it that way. But it's very different. And there are good shows, but I think I even the good shows, I've seen enough television. It's really, you know, beyond what I really want to do right now.
Darci: Did you see the remake of The Odd Couple?
Michael: No, I didn't see it actually. I saw what they did with Will and Grace, which I couldn't understand why they brought that back as the same show, essentially. No, I didn't see the odd couple. I used to like that show, by the way.
Darci: Yeah, I watched the pilot of both the original and the remake and I don't know, even though they both exist in the same show and the same characters - I don't know, the modern sitcom is so different. I feel like everything is so political these days, they always like to say something about society instead of - I feel sitcoms in the 80s, they're just funny. Three's Company is one of my favorites. And that one it's just - there's never any politics or themes of the week its just mix ups and mayhem and I feel like today they always just try to add different social justice issues to sitcoms, and it's not necessary.
Michael: Yeah. And people said the old shows were about emotions, about how people related to each other - about going out on dates, basic things that are still effective all over the country, but because the country is so politicized right now, and so divided politically. And everything that you hear in the news is about politics in one way or another. So I think that's probably why those shows are into political topics one way or another.
Darci: It's just odd for sitcoms. I really hope once my career gets down the road, I can start to revive just the old fashioned feel. I really miss them. There's a whole generation has never seen any sitcoms from the 80s. And they're just missing out on a lot.
Michael: Oh, well, I agree with you. You may be onto something. I mean, I think if you wrote a funny sitcom, that that would get attention. People like to laugh. They still like to laugh you know now. But as you say, it is politically slanted. A lot of it with issues, important issues. But it's not, you don't laugh as much as you used to laugh at those shows. The old fashion shows. And I think that's a difference. And I think, you know, everything goes in cycles. I think that that kind of show will come back.
Darci: I hope so. There's no Laverne & Shirley's or Three's Company, or, like those shows don't really exist anymore.
Michael: Except rip offs, like Two Broke Girls was a ripoff of Laverne & Shirley. A complete ripoff I hated. I hated that show. I hated the show because it was nasty. Basically, and it was stereotypes, terrible, terrible stereotypes on Two Broke Girls. I could write that show in a second. I mean, I know the formula for it. And I could easily write it, but I really disliked it because of the basic prejudices that they were showing. And it was a ripoff of Laverne and Shirley, which was a very, very funny show. I worked on Happy Days, which was well done. Our offices were right down the hallway from Laverne & Shirley because both series were produced by Gary Marshall. And I loved Happy Days. I loved working on that show. But you don't have shows like that anymore. There was a humanity about Happy Days. You know, it was a family that everybody wanted to have. You know, where you had a very supportive mother and father and brother and sister and you just don't see a show like that anymore.
Darci: I love the Fonz how he can just make anything happen when it's a snap of his fingers.
Michael: Yes, that was a good --
Darci: There's no real characters like him anymore on TV that I can think of.
Michael: There aren’t. No, I agree with you. I can't think of any characters like that that come in and do certain specific traits. I can't think of any at all.
Darci: I was reading an article that they mentioned how when Kramer on Seinfeld would enter was a take off on the way that Lenny and Squiggy would enter with their classic "hello". Which is kind of similar but it's from the '90s but there is no modern stuff like that, there's no physical comedy, that's what is lacking - pure physical comedy. There's nothing like watching Jack Tripper just walking across the floor and stumble and fall in a five minute bit. One of my favorites is when they go camping and he's trying to get into a hammock and then just take that simple action is like 10 minutes so just pure comedy gold. That's what's missing.
Michael: Yeah, I agree. There's no physical there really is no physical comedy anymore. Certainly not like Kramer who's every entrance and exit was physical comedy. And also going back to you had mentioned Three's Company. Well, what's his name? John?
Darci: John Ritter
Michael: Yeah, he had a lot of physical comedy that he did, and he did it very well, too. So yeah, that you don't see in shows anymore. Laverne and Shirley did an enormous amount of physical comedy. Almost close to Lucille Ball - Lucy, you know, that's how much they did physical comedy.
Darci: And Carol Burnett.
Michael: And Carol Burnett. But you just don't you don't see that anymore. You know, and all the people on The Carol Burnett Show like, what's his name who used to not only have a Harvey Korman certainly did.
Darci: And Tim Conway --
Michael: Tim Conway was hysterical. I mean, hysterical and things that he did on the show. Mrs. Wiggins was great. Yeah, those were great shows, they really were. But you don't see, you're right, you don't see that physical comedy. I can't think of any show that has it really, at this point.
Darci: I do think the closest is Kaitlin Olson, she was Sweet Dee on It's Always Sunny in Philadelphia. And then she was in a show that didn't last as long as it should have called The Mick. But she's the only person I can think of right now that does physical comedy. I would love to have her like in a multi cam. I was talking to Joel Zwick, a while ago, he talked to one of our classes, and I --
Michael: Oh, great --
Darci: I was talking to him about that. And he was saying he feels there are actors that can still do it. But there's just no need for it. So you don't know what they're capable of. But that's interesting to think about.
Michael: But there's an Australian series called Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries, with Essie Davis is the star of it. And it's a brilliant it's a mystery series and done very well. It's a noir setting. And there's a cop in there that does a lot of physical comedy as well. That's the only time I've really seen it. But the series is wonderful. It really is. If you get a chance to see it, it's on amazon prime. It's called Miss Fisher's Murder Mysteries. And there I think there are three seasons of it, which are very good. There's also an English series that is just terrific. Because first of all, it has my one of my favorite actresses, Judi Dench, As Time Goes By. It's a wonderful, wonderful series. And that's on Amazon Prime as well. You can see it there. So I highly recommend them both. It's also an endearing series. As Time Goes By -- all the actors are wonderful. And Judi Dench is just brilliant. So is Geoffrey Palmer who plays opposite her. And you just feel good after watching an episode of that series. It's just terrific. But those are shows, those are the few shows that I've watched recently, I watched all of the Poro Mystery series, which I loved. I thought he was terrific. I thought the series was terrific. But that's it. That's about all I'm watching these days or did watch.
Darci: Tell me if you will a story about your childhood that explains who you are as a writer or as a person.
Michael: Oh, that's a hard one. Let's see. story about my childhood. Oh, that explains me as a person -
Darci: or a writer.
Michael: Well, I did. I used to watch sitcoms a lot when I was a child. And I one day I decided you know, I can do that. So I wrote a spec script for Maude, your remember the series starring Bea Arthur called Maude. It was in Norman Lear series.
Darci: I haven't seen it. But I've heard of it. I was at a long list of '80s sitcoms, I want to watch this on the list. I haven't got to that one yet.
Michael: She played, Bea Arthur, played the lead and she played an extremely liberal woman. It was sort of a counter to Archie Bunker on All in the Family. It was a Norman Lear produced series. And I thought, you know, I can do that. And I did. I sat down and I wrote a spec script. And it was a little daring for those days because the spec script was about two gay guys moving into the neighborhood where Maude lived and throwing the neighborhood into a furer in those days. You know, this was in you know, 19 long time ago -- in the 70’s things were very different. And so it was a very funny script, I really enjoyed writing it. And I gave it to a friend of mine who had connections. And he sent it over to William Morris Agency. And they loved it. And they signed me. And so that's how I got my agent to begin with. That doesn't really answer your question, though, as to what happened, describe what it tells about me.
Darci: So that this song that you're talking about that they performed on TV, is there a clip of that somewhere that I could find? Was that actually on TV?
Michael: Yeah, it was on The Great American Dream Machine maybe you can find it was called, it is called Painting the Flowers. And as a segment of The Great American Dream Machine, and an actor who has passed away. I think Eli Wallach was who was the person that they filmed walking through Central Park when the song was being played. I did another song for The Great American Dream Machine, which didn't make the final cut on it because they were out of time. They did a show called VD Blues, an hour long show. And the idea was to have all kinds of sketches. This is done on Public Television. Nobody else would do it, except Public Television, would do something like this. And this was done a very long time ago. And Dick Cavett was the moderator of the show, and they brought in all kinds of people to write sketches and songs, and about teaching the public about VD in a comedic way. So I wrote a song for that show where I, make sure that I remember the title correctly, it was cut out, because they didn't have enough time to put in in the show. But it was all about VD. And it was a barbershop quartet sitting in front of a barber shop about how you can get VD. And they loved it. They thought it was really funny. But it didn't get on the air at the end because they ran out of time to do it. But that was something that only PBS would do. Nobody else would have the guts to do something like that. And it was a great idea. You had famous songwriters, you had Jules Feiffer, during a cartoon, you had all these people. Kander and Ebb wrote a song, the famous composers of Cabaret the Musical and a lot of other shows. It was really a milestone in television. So it was kind of fun to write something like that. As daring as that. And then I wrote, which also didn't get done, Stan Lee who does all those super comics like Superman and Spiderman. He asked me to do a comic book about teaching teenagers about sex. As a comic book, so I did that. But at the end, he didn't have the nerve to do it. He felt he just didn't want to do it. But I wrote a comic book about teaching sex. That was kind of fun as well, I must say. So I've done a lot of very strange things. You know? I'm trying to think of the lyrics of that song that I did for about the '60s. What is it? A song that I wrote? I can't think of it. Maybe it'll come to me. I'll try to think of it.
Darci: Okay.
[I cut more out here - now we are talking about his days at Sesame Street.]
Michael: I also was the executive producer of Sesame Street for 10 years. And we won the the Emmy Award every single year that I was the producer -- 10 years in a row. So I have 10 Emmy awards from Sesame Street, which is nice, which is kind of fun, to know that we had that success. Sesame Street was an interesting time. Brilliant, brilliant, brilliant people working on that show, in every department, every department from costuming to acting to camera work to the Muppets from the Henson organization. Everything about that show was done on on a very, very high scale. So it was fun working on that. And it was fun, because we had so many. So I met so many celebrities and guest stars, everybody in the world wanting to be on Sesame Street. So I could pick up the phone and call anybody. And they would come on the show. So what I did was I increased certain areas where we had stars, who sang opera, which they had not done before, and people who had done ballet, and I really wanted students, little children to get a view of different things in the world, on Sesame Street, so I expanded and that was kind of fun. So I met so many people, so many stars. It was kind of fun doing that.
Darci: Was that about early nineties?
Michael: Yes, it was from about '92 to 2002, somewhere around there.
Darci: I feel like I can remember that, I would have been watching Sesame Street in the early nineties, I remember, I do remember all the the ballet and everything.
Michael: Well, we were in New York City, so we had access to New York City Ballet, to the Black Dance Theatre of Harlem, to Alvin Ailey. We had access to all these wonderful people and wonderful companies, who were more than happy. Theatre of Harlem created a fable that they that they performed for us. Mark Morris, who had his own company, who was a brilliant Contemporary choreographer, created a piece that he danced with six foot high puppet Muppets. And we we just had access to everybody and it was great. We had what's-her-name from the New York City Opera from the Metropolitan Opera? We had, can't pull up her name right now, who who had sung Carman at the at the Opera House and she came on and she sang, an aria from Carmen, putting Elmo to sleep and she sang it as she was telling a story. So that was lovely. I mean, that was really quite wonderful. I also increased when we did Museum pieces, we thought we went into the Museum of Modern Art and film some of the artwork there and that's how we taught eyes, ears and nose with a Picasso painting. I thought that was kind of fun as well. So we did, I mean Sesame Street did so many things and did them so well, because of so many brilliant people together. That was that was a lot of fun doing that and that was ten years. So I've told you about my whole career, almost.
Darci: You're making me want to go back and watch Sesame Street again.
Michael: It’s very different and HBO bought it and changed it a lot so I hadn't watched it in a long time. So they've changed it completely from what it was and there's only one person I recognized on the show. All the people are different. So, the old shows, I don't know if you can still see those, you might be able to find some of the old shows, but you probably watch some of them. So, if you had seen them, you would have seen the shows with Maria and Gordon and all those people, I think.
Darci: Yeah, these things that you're saying, like they sound familiar, I've seen some of these episodes.
[We're nearing the end here, and he had to wrap up.]
Darci: Well, thank you so much. This is been great. I really loved hearing all of your stories from back in the day.
Michael: Thank you.
Darci: I I just love those old sitcoms and I sometimes think I was born in the wrong decade cause I always feel so drawn to those shows --
Michael: And it's up to you to bring them back.
Darci: It’s on my bucket list. I do have one, I have an idea for one called Chutzpah! that I just want to write with the mix-ups and the mayhem and without all the social justice issues. And just like Three’s Company -- it just makes you laugh and it holds up today. I still binge that show constantly. There's nothing like Don Knotts and John Ritter together, it's just pure fun. Just makes you feel good afterwards. You just can't stop laughing.
Michael: I loved Mayberry also. And shows like that weren't huge laugh getters but had a wonderful warm feeling about them that you just said The Andy Griffith Show. I thought it was lovely show in many ways. It made you feel good watching it so so I agree with you. Yeah, I agree.
Darci: Thank you so much. I really enjoyed this.
Michael: I enjoyed it too. So thank you. Good luck with this project. Sounds like a good project and I wish you. Good luck.
Darci: Thank you. Good luck with your new adventures.
Michael: Thank you. I appreciate it. I'll need it. Take care, and good luck on this project. Bye-bye, thank you, bye-bye.
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